Craft Chat Depressing post about AI

[Dan Faulkner]

I know this is everyone's least favourite subject, but maybe someone can offer a brighter perspective on things and cheer me up? I was going to write a joke post about how bad AI is, with the punchline being a classic example with all its usual ticks. So I typed "Please write me the opening paragraph of a litrpg story" into Gemini, and got back the following:

"The smell of ozone and burning copper wire always preceded the blue screen. Ethan blinked away the static in his vision, his fingers still twitching with the muscle memory of gripping a mouse and keyboard that no longer existed. Instead of his cramped apartment, his boots were sinking into gray, ash-like dirt under an alien sky bleeding hues of deep violet. A rhythmic, digital chime echoed directly inside his skull, accompanied by translucent text that hovered right before his eyes, blocking out the jagged horizon."

I'm so depressed now. I mean, it's not exactly Shakespeare, but for a pulpy story I can't see a damn thing wrong with it. And I'm good at picking prose to pieces. Up until now, I was feeling reasonably secure about the whole AI situation. Every time someone posts on SM about the diabolical slop that's flooding the zone, I feel slightly better, because everyone can clearly tell it's slop and the examples are awful. But this just isn't. It makes me think the examples we tend to see are the ones where someone put in literally zero effort, and used the free version of ChatGPT to boot.

Are we doomed at this point? I expect if the story went on longer we'd see inconsistencies creeping in, and the characterisation would be bland, and (hopefully?) it would all start to feel a bit empty and soulless. But as far as the prose itself is concerned? Ugh

 

[RK Wallis]

I can cheer you up. I can instantly pick the problem. There's no rhythm, no heart, no voice. It's just words on a page, leaving me cold and skimming words because I'm bored. And when my Kindle opens, I'll post an example of what I mean.

 

[RK Wallis]

I might end up depressing you more! This is a prologue:

A girl is running for her life.

The summer air burns at her back, but there are no torches, no angry mobs, only the distant lanterns of the wedding party, the reddish glow of the sun as it breaks against the horizon, cracks and spills across the hills, and the girl runs, skirts tangling in the grass as she surges toward the woods, trying to beat the dying light.

Voices carry on the wind, calling her name.

Adeline? Adeline? Adeline!

Her shadow stretches out ahead—too long, its edges already blurring—and small white flowers tumble from her hair, littering the ground like stars. A constellation left in her wake, almost like the one across her cheeks.

Seven freckles.
One for every love she’d have, that’s what Estele had said, when the girl was still young.
One for every life she’d lead.
One for every god watching over her.

Now, they mock her, those seven marks. Promises. Lies. She’s had no loves, she’s lived no lives, she’s met no gods, and now she is out of time. But the girl doesn’t slow, doesn’t look back; she doesn’t want to see the life that stands there, waiting. Static as a drawing. Solid as a tomb.

Instead, she runs.

Schwab, V.E.. The Invisible Life of Addie LaRue (p. 12). Titan Books. Kindle Edition.

 

[Aethalope]

Identifying AI writing is one of my gigs, and that screams AI. It's a mashup of all litrpg stuff available for free online. The smells, the muscle memory, Ethan, echoing inside his skull, hues of deep violet... Anyone could have written that, and everyone probably has written that at some point.

So on the one hand, Rachel is absolutely right in that it has no heart or voice. On the other hand, you're right in that it could be slotted into any royal road litrpg and no one would bat an eyelid at it. It would have 500 followers in the first five days and be on Rising Stars before the month is out.

So, the answer is to write human. Don't sit down thinking 'I am now going to write for this genre, so I need to put these words together in this way.' Just write what your human voice tells you.

 

[Dan Faulkner]

I might end up depressing you more! This is a prologue:

A girl is running for her life.

The summer air burns at her back, but there are no torches, no angry mobs, only the distant lanterns of the wedding party, the reddish glow of the sun as it breaks against the horizon, cracks and spills across the hills, and the girl runs, skirts tangling in the grass as she surges toward the woods, trying to beat the dying light.

Voices carry on the wind, calling her name.

Adeline? Adeline? Adeline!

Her shadow stretches out ahead—too long, its edges already blurring—and small white flowers tumble from her hair, littering the ground like stars. A constellation left in her wake, almost like the one across her cheeks.

Seven freckles.
One for every love she’d have, that’s what Estele had said, when the girl was still young.
One for every life she’d lead.
One for every god watching over her.

Now, they mock her, those seven marks. Promises. Lies. She’s had no loves, she’s lived no lives, she’s met no gods, and now she is out of time. But the girl doesn’t slow, doesn’t look back; she doesn’t want to see the life that stands there, waiting. Static as a drawing. Solid as a tomb.

Instead, she runs.

Schwab, V.E.. The Invisible Life of Addie LaRue (p. 12). Titan Books. Kindle Edition.

Oooh that's beautiful, that's going straight on my reading list.

I'd say that partly makes me feel better. I wasn't thinking the AI's a genius and belongs on the bestseller list, just that the prose itself is decent and I couldn't spot the flaws. To be fair, I probably flattered it by choosing a famously non-literary genre that I'm not familiar with. Also the small sample size.

 

[Dan Faulkner]

Identifying AI writing is one of my gigs, and that screams AI. It's a mashup of all litrpg stuff available for free online. The smells, the muscle memory, Ethan, echoing inside his skull, hues of deep violet... Anyone could have written that, and everyone probably has written that at some point.

So on the one hand, Rachel is absolutely right in that it has no heart or voice. On the other hand, you're right in that it could be slotted into any royal road litrpg and no one would bat an eyelid at it. It would have 500 followers in the first five days and be on Rising Stars before the month is out.

So, the answer is to write human. Don't sit down thinking 'I am now going to write for this genre, so I need to put these words together in this way.' Just write what your human voice tells you.

Actually that is reassuring. Maybe it's just that I've never read LitRPG - I picked the genre at random. And you wouldn't necessarily expect the author's soul to burst onto the page right from paragraph one.

Come to think of it, the last time I tried a similar experiment (not long after ChatGPT launched), I gave it a thousand words to work with, which definitely helped. The prose wasn't awful then, either, it just couldn't handle an entire story.

I think I've just got used to people pointing out the really awful stuff, so it came as a shock. I forgot that wasn't necessarily the standard, that's just the stuff even a lay person can't miss.

 

[Aethalope]

And you wouldn't necessarily expect the author's soul to burst onto the page right from paragraph one

But maybe it needs to. Now more than ever.

 

[RK Wallis]

One of my staple favs, but it is fantasy set over New York and Paris. The author wrote poetry as a kid and published her first book at 21. I find there's a bit of an overload of poetry devices in it (but I love poetry so cope), but the story is so damn clever, I can't stop rereading and rereading.

I also love the way she has picked one unusual word and uses it a few times. The word fits the story perfectly.

 

[RK Wallis]

I gave it a thousand words to work with,

Remember the more you give it, the more it learns, so if a million writers are putting half decent prose in, it's going to learn quicker.

 

[Dan Faulkner]

Remember the more you give it, the more it learns, so if a million writers are putting half decent prose in, it's going to learn quicker.

Ah no, I meant I asked it to *write* a thousand words. I didn't feed it a thousand words. The extra length just made it more obvious that there was zero creativity at work.

 

[Dan Faulkner]

One of my staple favs, but it is fantasy set over New York and Paris. The author wrote poetry as a kid and published her first book at 21. I find there's a bit of an overload of poetry devices in it (but I love poetry so cope), but the story is so damn clever, I can't stop rereading and rereading.

I also love the way she has picked one unusual word and uses it a few times. The word fits the story perfectly.

Can definitely see why it's one of your favourites! So impressive she published at 21.

 

[Sedayne]

And you wouldn't necessarily expect the author's soul to burst onto the page right from paragraph one.

I do expect this, or I don't read on.

 

[Sedayne]

The problem is, it's too easy and too tempting to use AI from spell-checking all the way to writing the damn story for you.
Managers at work use it to write policies and procedures now. And maybe that's okay. Until you realise that the manager hasn't even read the thing that they "created" but they expect other humans to abide by it.
I could say I forgive them because they aren't writers. But actually writing policies is their job and they shouldn't do it if they can't.

Sorry for that tangent. It just occurred to me.

I get you wanted to experiment, Dan (and it is fascinating), but for the love of Ulysses, leave it alone.

 

[Aethalope]

@Dan Faulkner

Would you mind if I make use of the text you generated to develop a future Write Club South exercise?

 

[Dan Faulkner]

The problem is, it's too easy and too tempting to use AI from spell-checking all the way to writing the damn story for you.
Managers at work use it to write policies and procedures now. And maybe that's okay. Until you realise that the manager hasn't even read the thing that they "created" but they expect other humans to abide by it.
I could say I forgive them because they aren't writers. But actually writing policies is their job and they shouldn't do it if they can't.

Sorry for that tangent. It just occurred to me.

I get you wanted to experiment, Dan (and it is fascinating), but for the love of Ulysses, leave it alone.

Yep... No, I'm not looking to experiment, don't worry.

 

[Dan Faulkner]

@Dan Faulkner

Would you mind if I make use of the text you generated to develop a future Write Club South exercise?

By all means, I don't want to claim ownership

 

[LJ Beck]

Dan, I hope you're feeling more cheered. And hopefully this cheers you up even more...

I just finished reading your brilliant book, The Demon Drink, and there is NO WAY this could ever be written by AI, or in fact, by anyone other than you. It is so definitively your voice, and your style, and your humour. The writing flows and is super compelling.

In comparison to the AI shite that you got back from Gemini. The thing I find about AI writing is that it usually mimics what it flags as a "literary" style, even for genres that are not literary. LitRPG being one of the least "literary" genres I've ever read. Nothing good that I've read on RR in the LitRPG genre, sounds like this. The gemini prose is boring, impersonal, and has no emotion to it at all, no humour, no sense of "something just happened that is super weird."

Here's the opening of a few LitRPG's that I've read or am reading. You can tell that they are written by humans. (Note, I got a bit carried away, as I'm doing a lot of research these days into the genre as I prepare to write one myself.)


*********

"The transformation occurred at approximately 2:23 A.M., Pacific Standard Time. .As far as I could tell, anyone who was indoors when it happened died instantly. If you had any sort of roof over you, you were dead. This included people in cars, airplanes, subways. Even tents and cardboard boxes. Hell, probably umbrellas, too. Though I'm not so sure about that one.

I'm not going to lie. You guys who were inside, probably warm and asleep and dreaming about some random bullshit? I'm jealous. You're the lucky ones. You were just gone. Splattered into dust during the transformation."

~ Dungeon Crawler Carl - Matt Dinniman (of course! One of my fave series of all time.)


*********

"Vivi opened her eyes to the Burial Room of the Ashen Hierophant.

Having run the final boss fight of Seven Cataclysms at least a thousand times, she instantly recognized the scenery surrounding her. She groggily pushed herself up against the armrest of the massive obsidian throne, blinking around at the yawning spires enclosing the arena. Lava bubbled a dozen feet away, heat licking at her face, the sensation strangely vivid.

“What?” she mumbled, head foggy. “Where…how…?”

Hazily, she looked down at herself. She was dressed in a hooded black robe covering her from neck to ankles, a thick, luxurious garment gilded with swirling purple designs. It was a familiar piece of gear. As the best-in-slot robes for mages, she wore them around constantly. But they'd never felt so real. Uncomprehending, she tugged at the fabric, and it shifted across her skin."

~ New Life as a Max Level Archmage - ArcaneCadence (Just started this one, but it's really good so far. Lots of personality, and savvy writing.)


*********

"Orrin walked behind Daniel the same as he did every day after school. At least for the last two months, this had been the routine. His friend did not look back once as he jabbered away to his new girlfriend, Cara.

At least her house is on the way to our neighborhood. Orrin thought as he kicked a rock on the sidewalk. It skittered along for a few feet when he failed to connect fully.

Daniel and Orrin had been inseparable since elementary school. Neighbors, they had become friends due to proximity. Growing up next door to each other, their parents made sure they did all the same activities. Soccer, baseball, even martial arts, until everyone realized Orrin was terrible at any coordinated activity. Daniel had excelled at everything."

~ I'm not the hero - SourpatchHero (I'm listening to this now, and enjoying it a lot. Takes a few pages before they're hit by a car, die, and are dumped into the game world where chaos ensues. The chars are super compelling, and there's a great, heartwarming friend at the core of the story.)


*********

"Jason woke up naked, face down in the grass. That was not how he expected to wake up, having gone to sleep in his own bed and his own Darth Vader boxer shorts. From the feel of cool grass on his unmentionables, he had been removed from his bed and shorts both. The last thing he recalled was doing what he did most nights; playing video games until he got tired and fumbling his way into bed.

The grass he woke up on was weirdly comfortable; a dense bed of lush green softness. It wasn’t like any grass he had encountered before, which was a little unusual. His father was a landscape architect, and Jason had grown up learning more about grass than he ever wanted. Mostly because it was the only escape from his mother’s Japanese lessons.

Jason rolled himself over and sat up. He was feeling very odd, beyond just the circumstances. It wasn’t a bad sensation, more like waking up after a really long sleep. There was the lingering sopor, but also a feeling of refreshed energy. He ran a hand over his head, only to be startled to realise his hair was missing."

~ He Who Fights With Monsters - Shirtaloon (This was, I think, the first LitRPG that made it big (HUGE) outside of RR. Before DCC. He's now 12 books in. I'm on book 5. It's great.


**********

(I picked this one randomly from RR. I wanted one that wasn't top rated. (Still doing well, though, with 30k views.)

Version 1.01.0

The Static

Tuesday, October 4th

There's a moment, I'll get to it, where I'm sitting in a beige HR conference room, getting fired for something I didn't do, and reality just... stops cooperating.

Static where there shouldn't be static. Patterns where there should be paint. A voice in my head saying words that don't make sense yet.

That moment changes everything. And reality only gets less cooperative from there.

Let's start with the coffee maker.

~ Awakened - BooksByMandiMay


**********


OKay.... now I searched for tags "AI Assited content" and "AI-generated content"... unknown how much is AI, but even still, you can tell the difference instantly.


"Gu Yan was three years old.

His memories of that night were fuzzy. That wasn't quite right either—it was more like someone had smashed those memories on the floor, and he could only pick up a few scattered pieces. His mother held him tight against her chest, her arms wrapped around him so hard it hurt a little. The sirens outside were too sharp—so sharp that for years afterward, whenever he heard a piercing noise, he would instinctively hunch his shoulders. And then there was the sky—that pitch-black crack stretching across the entire city, like someone had slashed the heavens with a knife. What seeped out of that wound wasn't blood, but an abyss so cold it made your whole body go numb."

~ The Path of Affix Optimization - Wilowabc


**********

"I watched the vast sea of troops marching east from atop my vantage point on the hillside. It was a glorious sight. Two and a half million men strong, all of them marching under different banners and colors. Yet despite their differences, these disparate factions were united under one noble goal: the destruction of the Primordials and, with their end, gaining freedom for the entirety of the known world. All the races of humanity: the elves, the dwarves, the halflings and the sapiens; they were all represented here, in this immense, endless army. All of them had put aside their differences and devoted themselves to work together against a common threat.

I closed my eyes and sighed. It had been a long, trying road to get to this point. A road filled with countless years of tireless debating, negotiations, and politicking. So much back talking and compromises. So much time wasted. Yet it had all been worth it. For the first time in history, Mankind was united against the unforgiving power of the Primordials."

~ SHattered Soverign - Random Mudkip

 

[Josephine]

Not a fan of Lit RPG (the small amount I've been exposed to) but this is a banger of an opening!

There's a moment, I'll get to it, where I'm sitting in a beige HR conference room, getting fired for something I didn't do, and reality just... stops cooperating.

 

[LJ Beck]

Not a fan of Lit RPG (the small amount I've been exposed to) but this is a banger of an opening!

Yeah, that one's good. I'm going to have to add it to my TBR list. ha.

I think you might have to be a gamer to enjoy LitRPG. And not all gamers I know enjoy LitRPG either. It's a niche.

 

[Dan Faulkner]

Dan, I hope you're feeling more cheered. And hopefully this cheers you up even more...

Blush! You're much too kind, and thank you for the amazing feedback I'm really looking forward to getting stuck into your beta notes as soon as I iron out the last wrinkles in Killing Frank.

Those are all fantastic openings, but I agree with @Josephine that the best of the lot was the random pick! I really see what you mean about the literary style. I don't hate the two AI-assisted openings, but they're not in the same league as the others, there's nothing there that inspires me, and they don't seem to belong in the same genre. They read like very dry fantasy. Whereas LitRPG is clearly full of creativity. I really need to give it a try, I keep meaning to. I've added a couple of those to my reading list!

That's actually encouraging in another way too. Realistically, we're not going to hold back the tide of automation forever. But instead of a straight choice between "we either beat AI or we succumb", this points towards a third path where it takes over more of the drier forms of writing, while humans increasingly focus on the characterful, artistic side of things. Which feels like a more natural division of labour.

 

[LJ Beck]

They read like very dry fantasy. Whereas LitRPG is clearly full of creativity. I really need to give it a try, I keep meaning to. I've added a couple of those to my reading list!

Exactly, like a prune to a plum. And yay for adding them to your reading list. I do find (good) LitRPG highly emotive and creative. Super fun.

That's actually encouraging in another way too. Realistically, we're not going to hold back the tide of automation forever. But instead of a straight choice between "we either beat AI or we succumb", this points towards a third path where it takes over more of the drier forms of writing, while humans increasingly focus on the characterful, artistic side of things. Which feels like a more natural division of labour.

Couldn't agree more. There's already a strong division forming. There are a lot of readers on RR who tag "AI content" as what to filter out (like me!) And even put in their bios or their book blurbs "No AI used" or some such thing. So I think people are choosing to read fully human-made stories because they want the creativity and life experience that a machine programmed on the "average" won't give them. And they're okay to wait longer for that. Verses readers who who want the whole story right now to binge, and don't care about the quality. Or those who want to have created a story but (for whatever reason) don't want to do the work. Two distinct groups. I truly feel sad for the 2nd group as they're missing out on all the magic.

 

[Dan Faulkner]

Exactly, like a prune to a plum. And yay for adding them to your reading list. I do find (good) LitRPG highly emotive and creative. Super fun.

Couldn't agree more. There's already a strong division forming. There are a lot of readers on RR who tag "AI content" as what to filter out (like me!) And even put in their bios or their book blurbs "No AI used" or some such thing. So I think people are choosing to read fully human-made stories because they want the creativity and life experience that a machine programmed on the "average" won't give them. And they're okay to wait longer for that. Verses readers who who want the whole story right now to binge, and don't care about the quality. Or those who want to have created a story but (for whatever reason) don't want to do the work. Two distinct groups. I truly feel sad for the 2nd group as they're missing out on all the magic.

I wonder if anyone's compared the ages of the two groups? I can imagine very young readers feeling that way, especially as you fill in a lot of the magic in your own imagination at that age. (Although, eep at the thought of kids growing up reading largely AI slop.)

I can understand people feeling they have a story to tell but not the skill to tell it. Writing's incredibly difficult to do well. I'm probably in a minority here, but part of me is happy there's now a magic way for everyone to be able to tell their story. I just don't want to have to read it. And I especially don't want to be duped into buying zero-effort slop sold under false pretences. I guess honest labelling is the important thing there.

Maybe in the future we'll see it the same way as taking photos vs learning to paint? Or becoming a professional photographer, come to that.

 

[LJ Beck]

I wonder if anyone's compared the ages of the two groups? I can imagine very young readers feeling that way, especially as you fill in a lot of the magic in your own imagination at that age. (Although, eep at the thought of kids growing up reading largely AI slop.)

I was also wondering about age. I kind of got the vibe that maybe the AI content on RR was from high school or younger (just by the content, and also by posts on Reddit, etc.) But I haven't read enough of it to really make that assessment. And eep at the thought of kids both reading and producing AI slop. Is it watering down the imagination of the next gen?

I can understand people feeling they have a story to tell but not the skill to tell it. Writing's incredibly difficult to do well. I'm probably in a minority here, but part of me is happy there's now a magic way for everyone to be able to tell their story. I just don't want to have to read it.

hahaha!!!

And I especially don't want to be duped into buying zero-effort slop sold under false pretences. I guess honest labelling is the important thing there.

Definitely! There's so much judgement (much false) that a particular writing is AI, without universal labelling, it's detrimental to those that don't use AI as well! But I don't think there's a way to enforce labelling, unfortunately.

Maybe in the future we'll see it the same way as taking photos vs learning to paint? Or becoming a professional photographer, come to that.

Yeah, I think you're right. We'll start to automatically think if it as AI vs human-made, with all the preconceived views that will come with.

 

[Pamela Jo]

I would like to recommend a non fiction book.

Voltaire’s Bastards | John Ralston Saul

Because in his argument lies the reality behind AI. It cannot human. It is the ultimate in statistical decision making but it cannot create. It is enough for many to get the same formula in slightly different packaging. Entertainment for thos who find reassurance in that. A psychologis writing about understanding addiction admitted she became addicted to romance books because they gave her a predictable dopamine hit. We can become addicted to anything that gives us that feeling of safety and reassurance.
But that does not help us survive, adapt, invent. For that we need story and the real thing. The thing that captures the zeitgeist and changes us so that we are better able to remain sane and find solutions to problems. This has been true since the Greek's real Olympics. Not sports but theatre. The prize was awarded to the writer who provided the most "Catharisis" . By that they meant that transcendental feeling that you get from something that makes you more civilised, more human, more wise, by something that you carry away with you when you are moved by what is called "art."

The Greeks were fascinated by machines and very good at them. They invented the first robot. They had rudimentary batteries and clocks to run them. It could be argued that their art is what fuelled their science and engineering. Archaeologists speculate that if they had not been conquered by the Romans and enslaved That in 100 years they would have had inventions equal to the electric car, lights, everything that appeared at Edisons Menlo Park .

I think photography is a good comparison. At first it was marvelled that you could exactly reproduce what actually existed. Then it was used to create the elusion of existence, like the Fairies in the garden hoax. Then artists used it to distort reality. AI can do all of that as well as a human. What it cant do is give itself what photographers call "the eye". That sense that sees the world differently and uses the lens to show others that unique POV. In writing we call it voice, but it is the same thing. It is why a story that is imperfect in many ways, the Harry Potter series for instance, can still move people in a way that is impossible to reproduce.

AI and those who propose it take over writing and reason are incapable of true creation, only imitation. That is why they give us AI as they attempt to become Gods. But we are more than body, and mind-there is something else within us that defies reason. For thousands of years Philsophers have tried to define it , but in the end none deny it.