Anybody else plot this way?

[Marc Joan]

Joseph Heller's handwritten outline of Catch22, apparently: Joseph Heller’s Handwritten Outline for Catch-22

 

[Patricia D]

not me - but I'm impressed

 

[Robinne Weiss]

All I can think of is Run DMC, now....She told me to plot this way!
Sorry, my mind has a bad tendency to make strange connections like that...

 

[Robinne Weiss]

I've actually done plot outlines like that, though not nearly so extensive and complex (that one is truly impressive!). I find it useful when the timing of different characters' life histories and actions are critical to align properly.

 

[Nicole Wilson]

I had to do something similar (though much less complicated) when plotting my latest WIP. I had to create lines for each murder and then what I wanted accomplished for each character and clues left behind, using the murders as milestones throughout.

 

[Robinne Weiss]

I had to do something similar (though much less complicated) when plotting my latest WIP. I had to create lines for each murder and then what I wanted accomplished for each character and clues left behind, using the murders as milestones throughout.

Do you think real murderers do the same?

 

[Paul Whybrow]

Do you think real murderers do the same?

There have been several cases of people planning their murders in intricate detail, even using the methods used in crime novels—which is one thing that I fret about when describing how someone died in my psychological thrillers.

Many killers have been caught by examining their computer browsing history, or book purchases and library borrowing records. Some psychopaths go so far as to describe their murders in novels that they write before or after they commit them, which could be seen as an arrogant cry for help or a desire to be caught and punished:

Polish author jailed over killing he used as plot

 

[David C. Newrick]

*Spoiler alert*

I have always loved the ending of the marvellous classic movie Kind Hearts and Coronets. The murderer, believing he is about to be hanged for his crimes that morning, leaves in his cell a written account of his murders. On the way to the scaffold he is pardoned! Such a shame that twist has already been used...

 

[Patricia D]

Kevin O'Brien, author of many thrillers, described his process at a recent writers conference. I'm going to try it, because he is doing on the computer what I do in my head - and, God knows, the computer is more reliable. He starts with a general idea and keeps adding to it, eventually expanding to a 100 page outline, although not necessarily organized like an outline - just what happens and then what happens and why. Still, it is the bones of the book. This is when he starts writing the book. I'm finishing up a major edit before sending current WIP off to agents and am then going to dive into this with the next book

 

[Nicole Wilson]

Do you think real murderers do the same?

There have been several cases of people planning their murders in intricate detail, even using the methods used in crime novels—which is one thing that I fret about when describing how someone died in my psychological thrillers.

Many killers have been caught by examining their computer browsing history, or book purchases and library borrowing records. Some psychopaths go so far as to describe their murders in novels that they write before or after they commit them, which could be seen as an arrogant cry for help or a desire to be caught and punished:

Polish author jailed over killing he used as plot

What Paul said. Yes, a lot of them definitely do plan their murders. My fictional serial killer is doing just that, too.

 

[Chase Gamwell]

That's a very neat way to plot everything out. And I think it's very interesting that everyone here has a very different way of plotting their own work.

Personally, I probably have the most convoluted way of plotting novels ever:

1. Generate general story idea in head. Write down the premise.
2. Type a few chapters that develop the world and main character.
3. Type up the rest of the outline for the work.
4. Continue to write the work, following the initial outline.
5. Eventually (and this always happens) get to a point where the novel feels "off". At this point, revisit and revise the outline until new story path feels correct.
6. Repeat steps 4 and 5 until work is completed.

This process normally means that the initial draft of the MS is long, but it's a fairly quick process for me. I did it with my latest novel and from premise to final edit has taken roughly six months.

What does everyone else do? I want details!

 

[Robinne Weiss]

I'm similar to you, Chase. I usually start with an idea of the premise--usually I know the beginning, climax, and ending (or, at least I think I do). I write an outline for about the first half of the book. Then I start writing. I write until I need more outline to guide me, then I stop and block out the next few chapters, write, and plan, write and plan. Often I find that the ending changes from what I originally planned (mostly because a character shows that she/he doesn't want it to end that way, and has to make different decisions at the end).

 

[Marc Joan]

I haven't been at this long enough to have a developed modus operandi. For short stories, I [usually] just write them straight off, then have a few rewrites. One short story grew into a 30k novella, however, and this really brought home the drawbacks of the pantsing approach for longer works. It took multiple rewrites, & was a painfully protracted process, to hammer it into a structure that worked. So I decided that for my first attempt at a novel, I would make sure I had the plot nailed down in detail first. I am very glad I have taken this approach, as its already clear that it has saved me from going down routes that would have caused me problems later on. That said, I find it difficult to get excited about the plot outline -- it just seems a bit mechanical. I don't know if that means I have a rubbish plot or if I am just a frustrated pantser. Anyway, I am just about ready to start writing, so we will see if the creative juices get liberated around the dry plot outline. I suspect that further plot changes will be forced by the writing process.

 

[Paul Whybrow]

On the difference between being a pantser and a planner, there's an interesting interview with crime writer Ian Rankin in Crimetime (worth subscribing to, if you write in this genre), in which fellow thriller author Daniel Pembrey corners Rankin in a bar where he sets the action of his Inspector Rebus stories.

Incidentally, Ian Rankin is of those authors who took years to achieve recognition. Although he's now sold 20,000,000 books and had them turned into television serials, it was 12 years before he made any real money from them, during which time he worked menial jobs.

crimetime.co.uk | Down These Edinburgh Streets A Man Must Go - An Interview With Ian Rankin

DP: We never know what he's going to do next.

IR: I never know what he's going to do next.

DP: I saw that brilliant thing you did online with Sarah Hilary, where you talked about plotting - and how essentially you don't.

IR: So much of it is improvisational. The way a book comes to me is a kind of rough magic. Where do the stories come from? Sometimes they decide on a certain route that isn't the route you thought they ought to go down.

DP: That's what comes through for the reader, though, isn't it? When the writer is entertained and surprised by the story, the reader tends to be, too. Conversely, if the writer knows exactly what's going to happen-

IR: I don't know. How do you work? I mean, I know a lot of writers who need to know what's going to happen. James Ellroy famously did a three-hundred-page synopsis. I do a two-page synopsis.

DP: What really heartened me about your conversation with Sarah Hilary was that I thought I was weird in not knowing where my stories go. I have a hypothetical ending that I'm working towards, but it might shift ...

IR: There was a book that came out recently about Lee Child [Reacher Said Nothing], which is very similar; he doesn't know the ending before he starts. He doesn't know from chapter to chapter where it's going to go.

I work in a similar way. In my latest novel, the third in a series of psychological thrillers featuring a Cornish detective, I set the story in the here and now of summer 2016. This was useful in many ways, though my subplot of there being a predatory big cat on the loose, the legendary Beast of Bodmin Moor, was hijacked by real life. A lynx escaped from Dartmoor Zoo, over in Devon, which prompted half-a-dozen sightings of big cats, including mountain lions. I was forced to modify my story to include some of these, which at least gave it verisimilitude.

 

[Chase Gamwell]

I love what you posted @Paul Whybrow. It's great insight. My first foray into writing was with a general concept and no plot. I made it through two and a half books (in a trilogy), before I had to stop. It was a meandering mess that missed the mark more than it ever hit. I still like the story, but the first book will have to be rewritten from scratch, while the other two will need major tweaks. Needless to say, I've plotted what will happen in the rewrites so that I don't make the same mistake twice.

That said, I find it difficult to get excited about the plot outline -- it just seems a bit mechanical.

This may sound stupid, but I view plotting like going to a buffet. You have the opportunity to look at everything that could be on your plate before actually putting it there. I try to look at every option before adding it to the plot, but just like at a buffet, what winds up on your plate changes as you eat. At first, you may decide on meat and potatoes, but it's super hard to resist the fried chicken...or the mac and cheese. Then when you wanted a brownie for dessert, you saw there was some carrot cake hiding in the corner that you didn't see before, so you chose that instead.

...Guess it's time for breakfast...

 

[Robinne Weiss]

I'm currently teaching a small group of exceptional 9-11 year-old writers--giving them the extension their classroom teacher doesn't have the time to give them. I recently did a lesson on planning their writing. They, of course, groaned and moaned about it at first. "Why do we have to plan?" "I hate planning!" I took them through the planning process by actually planning a story with them as a group--they had a blast. Half of them went on to write the story we'd planned (though it wasn't the intent of the exercise), because they were so excited about it. It was the first time they recognised that the planning is the creative part of writing--it's where you explore all the possibilities, come up with characters you love, plan the disastrous things that will befall your main character and the incredible ways she'll get out of her troubles. Planning shouldn't be a chore. And whether you do it all at once at the beginning or bit by bit as you go, your planning shouldn't be a cage, either. You should feel free to stray.

I like to think of my planning as drawing a map. I know where I'm going to start, and I know where I'm going to finish, and the map shows me my options of how to get there--there are always options. And in some places, that map might simply say, "Here be dragons", because I don't really know what it's going to look like until I get there and map it out. Planning is also a way to hang onto ideas until I need them--that brilliant scene in the middle, the twist of the knife at the end, the character's secret motivations.

 

[James Marinero]

[QUOTE="Paul Whybrow, post: 35138, member: 179"

DP: We never know what he's going to do next.

IR: I never know what he's going to do next.

[/QUOTE]

I was a project manager for many years. Planning and lists are a way of life. Innate.

However, when it comes to writing I just let the story unfold. I put the MC in an impossible situation - now get out of that you b######! There's real fun in this, and I just ended 'Sword of Allah' a couple of weeks ago with two really difficult issues to resolve in the next book. If it's puzzling for me then it may be good for the readers too.

I've got the general chapter headings sorted for 'Cause of All Causes', if that's a plan. I tried detailed plotting once and it jus doesn't work for me. I think it stifles my (limited) creativity.

 

[Paul Whybrow]

I've firmed up my planning, to the extent that I write down what the themes of a new novel will be, which I find helps to guide the direction of the narrative. My WIP, which I'm in the final two chapters of writing, has themes of men's brutality towards women, untold secrets, avarice and our frailty when confronted with the forces of Nature.

I've heard of some writers having a working title that guides their thoughts, though they choose a catchier, more commercial title once finished. I work the other way round—I need the title decided before I begin, as this stimulates my creativity. My WIP is called An Elegant Murder, which is hinted at by a murder victim being found dressed in an ornate 1950s ball gown, tiara and opera gloves, but the elegance is more sardonic in the manipulative way she's put to death.

Some titles of successful books can be heavy handed or brutal. Stieg Larsson original title for The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo was Män som hatar kvinnor; in English: Men Who Hate Women. It was published this way in Sweden but retitled to be less confrontational once it was marketed for English-speaking readers.

I also write brief biographies of the main characters, before I start on the story. I refer to these from time-to-time, wary of turning individual players into some homogenised universal voice. This helps me to create fictional people who stay true to themselves, and they sometimes do things I hadn't anticipated. My plotting is more of a scaffold for me to rest the building of my story on, which means that my characters sometimes swoop about the scaffolding poles like so many gibbons!

I don't let this get out of hand, but my novels are about a team of detectives trying to solve complicated murders, so they're bound to disagree with one another. My protagonist, the Chief Inspector, has chosen them for their different skill sets. He follows the maxim that was recommended by basketball coach John Wooden:

Whatever you do in life, surround yourself with smart people who'll argue with you.

In this way, my characters drive the plot.

 

[James Marinero]

S'funny but...

The title for a book popped into my head the other day. Then, during those times of repetitive work like painting, or 'dead time' like travelling on a ferry, my mind got to work. There was inspiration from other books I've been reading recently (but no plot stealing). Now, I've just written the prologue. I've no idea where it will go from here, but I have set some background and have a few character sketches bubbling away. But plot? Buggered if I know, but as sure as eggs I'll make a story of it - the title does set the stall out. 'Nuff for now.